访《死囚之舞》导演

"Maybe you can change the minds of one or two people."
By Nina Rehfeld
November 25, 2002

Why the screenplay wandered for five years.

Though he was born in Ulm, Germany, Marc Forster and his family soon moved to a small, remote town in Switzerland where, among the other things they didn't do, they didn't go to the movies. But when he saw his first film, he knew what he wanted to do and, in 1990, began studying film at NYU. Five years later, he had Loungers under his belt, his first feature.

It would take another five years to realize Everything Put Together, a chilling tale of Angie, a young suburban mother played by Radha Mitchell, who loses her baby to sudden infant death syndrome. "Far from the agonizing TV-movie excursion into good taste and sensitivity that I was expecting," wrote Peter Bradshaw in The Guardian, "Forster gives us what looks and feels like an edge-of-the-seat psychological horror film, charting with excruciating intensity the couple's alienation from their shallow, fair-weather friends and the bereaved mother's descent into breakdown."

His ability to conjure such a haunting atmosphere with a handheld digital camera caught the eye of Lions Gate and he was soon attached to a script that had been knocking around Hollywood for years. This quiet, dark and emotionally wrenching story of two people who, to their own surprise, seek refuge from their misery in each other was Monster's Ball -- the first movie of Forster's that his mother had ever seen. She was devastated, of course, but you know, in a good way.

The awards and nominations at festivals in Berlin, Chicago and so on were terrific, of course, but it was Halle Berry's Oscar for Best Actress that turned Monster's Ball into more than a cineaste's favorite. Not only had Berry suddenly been propelled to the major league, but scripts and offers and packages and "let's do lunch" invitations began raining down on Marc Forster. Once he'd sorted through it all, he settled on Neverland as his next project. The gist: Two difficult years in the life of JM Barrie in which he struggles to find a way to explain death to his children. He decides to write them a book: Peter Pan. A new movie directed by Forster is promising enough, but so, too, is the cast on this one, headed up by Johnny Depp, Kate Winslet, Julie Christie, Radha Mitchell and Dustin Hoffman. Shooting wrapped in August and a release date has not yet been set.

Promoting Monster's Ball in Europe, Forster almost gives the impression that he's having difficulties speaking his native language again. He swoops in on an idea four or five times before he finally discovers a way to express it and has a tendency, especially when recalling conversations with Americans, to slip into English. Nevertheless, to Nina Rehfeld and a few other journalists in the room, he seemed glad to be in Europe again and let on that he'd like to live on that side of the Atlantic again some day. "But first I have to establish myself more as a director."

Won't be long, then.

When you were growing up in this small village in Switzerland, did you get a chance to see many movies?

There was a theater in the village, but my parents weren't interested in movies at all. It was the last thing they were interested in. So I didn't see a film until I was 12.

Do you remember which one it was?

Yes, it was 1982 and it was Apocalypse Now. [laughs] But the funny thing about that was that I was in New Orleans where I was filming and the executive producer was one of Francis Ford Coppola's friends. And Coppola had a house in New Orleans. After two weeks in the hotel, I was going nuts. You couldn't open the window! I was getting claustrophobic. So this executive producer said, "Ah, well, a friend of mine has a house here."

So the following week, we moved into Francis Ford Coppola's house in the French Quarter. There were all these drawings by Kurosawa on the wall and all the furniture from The Godfather was in the living room. And I was sitting there alone in the living room of this house, and I thought: This is wild! I'm sitting here in Francis Ford Coppola's house! A seven-bedroom villa with a courtyard and everything. It was just gorgeous, right there in the middle of the city. So I look at the TV and see this tape: Apocalypse Now Redux. And I thought, I've got to look at this thing right now! [laughs]

So, I lived there for a while, and I do have to say, it was incredible. I was calling up people, saying, "You've got to come and visit me. I've got seven bedrooms." I mean, there was a maid and cook. I felt very fine there. A great experience.

As a European, did you have any fears or worries about making a film like Monster's Ball that could be seen as critical of America?

Yes, sure. You're always open to a lot more criticism when you make a film about people in a different country. But that's the challenge. I read the screenplay and, just thematically, there was so much more to work with. It was written very simply and yet it was a very complex story.

Do you think you might see certain problems in America a bit more more clearly?

I do think so, or at least that one can be a little more objective. I haven't been able to make a film about Germany or Switzerland because, if you grow up here, you think you know what the people are like. You think that you don't have to do any research into them because you think you already know them. But sometimes, there's a certain ignorance to that because you may not know them all that well after all. You can't be objective. And when you move over to America, for a while there, you're sort of like a child. Everything's new. You find yourself asking, Why is that person acting that way or this way?

Now, the background on Monster's Ball is that there were a lot of financial negotiations.

There were, and the script was being passed around for about five years. Every studio wanted to make its own changes. Some wanted the child to live or not to have so many people dying, etc., etc. And several directors were interested as well. Oliver Stone wanted to make it, but not for that budget. He won't get behind the camera for less than $15 million. Sean Penn, a similar story. De Niro wanted to play Billy Bob's role, but his independent salary is seven or eight million. That's why it never came together. So they said they wanted to make the film for less than $5 million and we got it for just a bit less than that.

That sex scene.

I've heard the American version is different from the European version.

Yes, the American censors had objections to the sex scene between Halle Berry and Billy Bob Thornton, so it's about a minute shorter. I was on the phone with the censors eight different times. Now, for me, the scene is pretty key for the film but Halle and Billy Bob also had final cut on this scene. I thought that if I gave them final cut, I wouldn't have to explain to them why I'm putting the camera here or there. So there was a lot of freedom as we filmed the scene, and I knew I could show it to them afterwards and they could decide for themselves whether or not they've gone too far. So it did take a bit longer to cut, but the scene still works. I'm still happy with it.

Does a scene like that make the actors or the director more nervous?

I think it was tough for all of us. None of us had filmed a love-making scene before, but by then, we knew each other very well and trusted each other a lot.

At first, you didn't want Halle Berry for the role.

Right, at the beginning, I knew that she was already a pretty big star in America and just assumed that she wouldn't be prepared to do this sex scene. I mean, there had been this big discussion when she did Swordfish with John Travolta. And I thought, well, if it's such a difficult matter for her to do that, then I don't know if she'd be willing to shoot such a scene. So we met two or three times and I offered her the role and I thought that she showed so much passion for it that there was something inside her that no one else had revealed. And I thought that if I could manage to pull that out, then we could work very well together.

And then came the awards.

Yes, and I'm extremely pleased for her. I mean, she really deserves it. She's a great woman and she really is a great actress and she hadn't really had a chance to be cast for her talent rather than her looks.

If we can believe everything we read, the Coens called up Billy Bob Thornton and asked him if he'd be in their next movie and he asked, "What's it about?" And they said, "It's about a barber who wants to become a dry cleaner." And he said, "Ok, I'll do it." How did getting him aboard go for you?

Well, it's a funny story. The first time I met him, I went over to his house and he'd just read the screenplay. The first and only time. And he said he'd like to make it, and I explained my vision for the film and we understood each other pretty well. I asked him if he'd seen the films I'd made before. And he said, "No, no, I've seen your name." And that's how he decided. And I said, "Ok, you've seen my name. And that's how you decided to make this movie?" And he said, "Yeah." Ok, you know, whatever it takes.

I have to say, for me, to watch him work was simply unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it. He reads the script once, comes to the set and has no idea what's going to be filmed that day. You give him two pages and he looks at them and says, "Ok, ok." And then, he might add that this line here, he doesn't like it so much. He's got another idea. And it's much better.

Then we get started. Now, we've got no time for rehearsals, so I'd just like to film a set-up, just to see what happens. I just like doing that, without saying anything, just to see if we all have the same idea about a scene. So we film it, and he's memorized all this new dialogue. Just by looking at it once. I mean, I couldn't remember the first line. Really, he just looked at it once and like someone with a photographic memory, he's got it all. Just so. And then he just walks off. I mean, just to observe that.

And ok, maybe he's off for one or two moments and you say something to him, or point out a detail -- I'm very detail-oriented -- and he picks it up immediately. Unbelievable. It's a very liberating feeling. We'd talked about the role a lot beforehand. But he's so intuitive. Plus, he's constantly entertaining the whole crew, telling jokes and so forth, constantly keeping everybody laughing. And Halle had to lock herself away in a closet or something because she doesn't work that way. Every actor has a different technique. But then you say action, and for a moment, his whole face just transforms. He goes into the moment and is simply a different person. Incredible.

The American south is a myth unto itself. In film and in theater, Tennessee Williams and so on. Weren't you worried about approaching this as someone from Switzerland?

I never really thought that through because I thought that the more I tried to analyze what I'm doing, the more it'd scare me. I work intuitively. So for me, it was an intuitive process to go down there and observe the people in this prison and spend time there with the people who do that for a living. There really are these people who've been there as wardens for three generations. It actually exists -- as does the racism.

Was it important for you that someone like Billy Bob Thornton, who knows the American south well, play the role?

What was important to me was that Billy Bob take this role and give it a sort of "stamp of approval." As I read the script, I only saw him in my mind, so yes, it was very important. And he's played in so many films that take place in the south. Funny, one day he was looking around at the crew and everybody and said, "I can't believe it. I'm the last hillbilly around here." [laughs] And he goes, "I have a Swiss director, I have a son from Australia, I have a father from Brooklyn..." So on the fourth day, I went over to him because he'd said, "Look, if you have any problems with the studios, let me know and I'll back you up." So I went over to him and said, "You know, Billy Bob, they want to change the title of the movie." And he says, "What do they want to change to the title for?" He was getting all red and mad and everything and said, "Well, what do they want to change it to?" I said, "The Last Hillbilly Standing." He enjoyed it.

How difficult was it for you to get to the reality of life in prison?

It was pretty intense. Two films had been filmed at this prison before, Dead Man Walking and Out of Sight. They were actually pretty open. The warden gave us complete access to everything. The very first time I was there, he took me to Death Row. And as you walk past these cells, you see the signs there saying who's going to be executed and when. It really effected me emotionally.

You go through maybe ten doors. You lock one behind you then the next one opens. You look at these people and you can read what they're in for. It really got to me. You can talk to the people there, and you know, there's this whole clich� about what these people are like. But my image of them completely changed while I was there. Months later, I came back after I decided I wanted to film there. Two of the cells were empty, of all these hundreds, and I asked, "What happened here, did you execute two people?" And the warden said, "Oh, no, no. Through DNA testing, we found out that they were innocent."

Now, one of them had been in there for 16 years. The other one, 18 years. And I thought, my God. And the interesting thing is that the second warden, my advisor throughout the whole thing, had executed 26 people on the electric chair. But we were talking and he said he was actually against the death penalty even though he'd executed these 26 people. I said I thought that was kind of contradictory. And he said, "If I don't do it, someone else will."

So they let you see the actual electric chair.

Oh, yes, everything in the film is authentic. The place where Sean Combs and Halle say goodbye to their son, that was the real room where they say goodbye. The area where they wait to be executed really is the place where they wait during those hours. And the room with the electric chair, yes, it was all real.

Even some of the supporting roles are cast with pretty prominent actors. Was this difficult?

Not at all. They were practically banging down the door. Really. I think it was Billy Bob, for whom a lot actors have a tremendous respect. Because of all American actors, he's certainly one of the most interesting right now. At the beginning, I didn't want a star as well-known as Halle, precisely because of this sex scene. I was actually thinking about two other people first for the role. Same with Sean Combs. I was first thinking of Jeffrey Wright, who shot Ali instead, and Don Cheadle, who shot Ocean's 11, so neither were available. But the casting director sent along a tape of Sean and I had no idea that he was actually interested in acting. The tape was good, and he turned out very well for the film.

About the electric chair, there does seem to be an almost morbid attraction, a fascination for it, particularly in Europe where we don't have the death penalty.

Well, I do have to say that I'm very much against the death penalty and have said so several times in the American press, even though they're really in a patriotic mood these days and you kind of have to be careful what you say. But I do have to say that I find it almost unbelievable that here, in the 21st century, people are put to death by almost medieval means.

But sure, there is a certain fascination. And I did film this scene very theatrically. The curtain goes up and the lighting is focused on Sean. Then, the microphone, that's sort of his performance. And all the shots of the preparation of the chair have a sort of backstage feeling about them. You see how carefully it's all prepared practically in real time. As slowly as possible, though I've since wondered if maybe it isn't too slow. But it was very important for me, particularly for the Americans, so that they can actually understand what goes on there. And I intentionally shot all the close-ups, for example, the way the cable is hooked up and so forth, so that you really see how bad it is. I asked the advisor to watch our every move, to watch the way the actors react to the situation, to keep an eye on everything as we went through this process step by step, and to tell me immediately if we get anything wrong. And he made only one change. As we were filming Sean in the chair and had really gone through this according to the protocol, he suddenly said, "I feel like I'm at work."

What I found fascinating was that each of the stories in the film would have had enough material in them for a whole new film all their own. Did you ever get the feeling that it was all adding up to be too much?

Yes. For example, with the child. There was a big debate about that, about whether the child would live or die. But I thought, if the child makes it, goes on in a coma or something, then she wouldn't be concentrating on anything else. The whole love story would simply be pushed to the sidelines. But we need this so that a connection between the two of them comes about.

When a young director has such a spectacular success, he becomes the flavor of the month. Do you think that's happened with you?

Sure, at the moment, yes. But next month, it'll be someone else. [laughs] What's good about it, though, is that I've been offered a lot of projects. And of course, there's always this dilemma, I mean, I read some of these and think, "Wow, I could live for years off of that!" [laughs] But the screenplays are just too weak and I'd rather go back to Switzerland and work in a bank than accept a script like that. But this JM Barrie story and another project I'll be doing with Universal are two I do like and have been working with for some time now.

Do you have a fascination for the dark side of things?

Well, for me... Our family had three deaths, one after the other in rapid succession. That really did change the way I see things very much. I think, too, looking at the world recently, that we do live in a very dark time. You feel that more in America than you do here, especially politically, of course. I think it's very important to accept difficult challenges in film. Not that I think I can really change anything with a film, but you can spark certain thought patterns and processes for some people.

So maybe you can change the minds of one or two people, and I think it's important to keep on trying to tell such stories. With this film, I tried to set it in an almost universal time. You never see a date. They say that the day of the death is June 5th, but they don't say whether its 2000, 2001 or 1990. Maybe you can date it with the cars, but the point is, that the specific year doesn't matter. I wanted to create this universal time, and I do think it's relevant to a lot of what's going on now in America. Now and in America's past, even though it's still a relatively young country. I mean, I don't know how many people exactly the president executed when he was governor of Texas, but... Nothing surprises me anymore.

Do you worry about retaining your own style when you start shooting for a studio like Universal?

Well, that particular project is pretty daring for them to start with. It's about the health system in the US and how corrupt it actually is, all the pharmaceutical companies and all that. The story is told in the style of, say, The Insider and Erin Brockovich and it's a tough one. I'm hoping that because the story is based entirely on fact and actual events and because you can't deviate from all that too much, they'll stick to it. What's important in stories like these is not getting too sentimental. With Universal, I do think that I'll have a relatively large amount of freedom and will be able to make my own film. I actually worry more about Miramax. You never know.